1.5.10 Summoner mini-guide: Multi-Demon poison curses

I don’t have exact numbers in hand either, but the 3 DPS Elementals are pretty close to one another. For single targets, excluding their sfx procs, it should be Toxic>Fire>Storm>Spectral>Force.
Mind you, this changes depending on sfx procs, numbers (ie the Spectral can fall behind), survivability, and targets in range.
Storms don’t deal more damage to flyers, no. But they do have better projectiles for them, so they tend to deal more damage practically if the target’s moving about.

Toxic fields stack, yes, and they also stack with Nova fields. That said, each individual field has its own poison strength, and they all count towards Brom’s internal CD.

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another interesting question is how many +1all skills can be stacked.

u can have 2 on dual focus
u can have another in chest and ring

are they stackable?

u can build full elemental just spending 1 point in each elemental if u got +4 all skills. it can be done?

Yes they stack! If you have the ring with +1 to all, helmet and two weapons with +1 to all aswell then you get +4 and you only need 1 in each elemental, as you said.

It is possible, but it would need some compromises. You can get a +1 to all skills from helmet augments and Legendary rings, as well as from Master’s Hands. That’s the only way the class can achieve a total of +4 to all skills at the moment, since there’s no other 1-handed +1 weapons/foci. There’s only Kalika’s Catharsis, but that’s a 2-handed weapon.
But keep in mind that those are not foci, so you can’t do the following while you use them:

  • Enter Darkform (though you can use a foci set to enter it and switch to them)
  • Autoattack in Darkform to deal damage, apply sfx, and spawn Shadows (thorns can spawn Shadows but aren’t quite as reliable)
  • Use spells that require foci, such as Elemental Drain, Dark Offering, Venom Armor, and Swarm
  • Do anything meaningful with your hands, since their mind control is mostly useless in combat (and they can’t be used actively while you’re in Darkform since they’re guns)

You also can’t use them as cast sets for Elementals, because the extra Elementals will be dismissed when you switch sets. Cast sets can only be used to buff minions that get buffs from points in their skills, such as the Spectral Elemental and Demons, not for ones whose numbers depend on their skill levels.
That’s where the whole idea of using Remnants as Demon cast sets came from, actually. Since broad +1s can’t be used as effectively, massive focused +skills to Demons of choice seemed like the next best thing.

if u cant use foci its not viable option. to expensive price for getting +1 all skills.

then best option is helmet + chest+ ring and have +3 all skills i supose

with 4 diferents sets of x2 remnats (maxed for each class of demon) + rings + chest+ helm ( whith +1 all skills) u could get every demon at max level without investing points in demon tree? could be this a viable option? or u need to almost invest 1 point to get acces +1 all skills if u just got extra skill from gear?

As long as you have at least 1 point in a skill ( through putting a point into it or have +1 to this particular skill on your gear) then the +1 to all stacks on top.

Example:
0 points in carnagor and +1 to all doesnt work on it.
You have a +1 carnagor weapon equiped, now your carnagor has +1 and +1 to all skills works now, your carnagor is now +2.

But when you only got carnagor on your weapon and you switch weapons (making carnagor 0 again) then you desummon him.

There’s no chest with +1 at the moment, or any other armor piece with +1. So outside of using Kalika’s or Master’s, a global +2 is the best the class can get.

You can probably reduce this number considerably by using 1-2 sets for 2-3 Demons and/or discarding the Reaper entirely (since the Reaper has its own cast set now - Megatron).
Having the WD and the Carnagor or the Warper and the Reaper in the same set also reduces the need for +minion stat mods; the 2 defensive ones prefer +hp/armor, while the 2 offensive ones just need +damage (although I’m in favor of using +hp/armor for the Warper in tougher content where he’s not a damager but a phaser). So keeping them on the same set, assuming you get a Remnant with +3 to both Demons of choice, saves on mods.

As for not investing in a skill at all, it’s as @Korosukuma said. You need at least 1 hard point in a minion for it to remain alive when you switch sets. You can get the +1 to all skills to work on gear-only skills (example: +3 Warper on Remnants and +1 to all skills results in 4 Warper), but without 1 hard point in them you can’t switch to other sets and keep the minions.

After reading all ure guides i think i will make my summoner with this build: (+2 all skills)

Elemental 19

Elemental fire: 3

Master of flame 1

Spectral : 1

Force: 3

Storm: 3

Toxic:3

Nova: 3

Master: 2

Necromancer 18

Afterlive 2

Drain Live 2

Broom Curse 2

Elemental Drain 3

Dark Form 1

Dark Lord 1

Dark Offering 1

Venomos spirit 2

Venom Armor 2

Swarm 2

Demon 13

3 Blood LInk

1 Summoning Circle

1 WD

2 carnagor
5 meatshield
1 enrage

Build to work with 2 legendary affix +1 all skills (ring and helmet) and having 3 diferent weapon sets:

SET 1: 2x Harllequin Ablaze (+3 swarm each) to max swarm and play after having summoned WD or carnagor with swarm skill

SET2: 2x Remmnanst with +3 WD

SET 3 : 2x Remmants with (+3 carnagor +2/3 sumoning circle)

WD is for play as support class, and carnage to play solo

edited with help of last comments read here

Looks fine by me. The only correction I have is that Nova also maxes at 5 now, so you should have an extra 5 points there.

As for the main Demon, it’s your call really. I prefer the Carnagor because taunts are very convenient and gather enemies in one place for Novas and Swarms, but the Warper can also be used for more damage (and also benefits from +minion damage you get for Elementals, unlike the Carnagor who never really becomes a damage dealer).
Depends on whether you prefer to gather enemies in one place, away from you or your party, or to have the Warper nuke them one/few at a time (since the attack does have splash).

thank u very much for ure opinion and corrections , i think i will get carnage , its easier to survive with him, i have edited build with ure comments reducing nova and getting carnage as demon

i also would like to know if it would be able to use 1 harlekin with 3 swarm and 1 master hand with +1 all skills , (then sumoner ‘d be +3 all skills)
with just 1 focus can sumoner use elemental drain and darkform and swarm? is dps of those skills reduced in case he can use them with just 1 focus and master hand? vs usind ED and swarm and mele atacks with 2 focus?

That’s certainly viable too. You will lose some damage, yes, and Swarm will have less poison attack strength (which is mostly why I didn’t do it here), but it’s possible - and the +1 from Master’s is always valuable.

Made some corrections to the build, to account for a mistake with Command investments.
For clarity, the Warper Commands don’t provide their passive bonuses outside of the Commands’ active durations. Thus, they may still be an option if one uses them actively, but the distinction must be made.

What is the formula for sfx on dual focus with mods?
Total count * 0,6?

From my understanding, it seems to be inherent1 + inherent2 + (mods1 * 0,6)+(mods2 * 0,6). I don’t have an indisputable data-level answer though. It’s extremely hard to test this properly given the nature of sfx (unlike, say, crit which is immediately visible and reliably countable), but in any calculation it should be more beneficial (in terms of maximizing sfx) to dual wield than to not.
I understand the question weighs the benefit against the benefits of another option for the slot, but I really can’t say definitively.

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What do you use in the achievements slots? +stats or +10% dmg to faction

Good question, I haven’t covered that aspect.
I don’t find +caste damage to be useful in this context, so I use +AA, +STA, and +WILL for feeds. If course +STR/ACC are also an option to cover more feeds.
The one achievement I find to be invaluable is +8% power, since it really helps sustain Elementals (although it doesn’t provide regen for spell use). The 5th could be +5% radius or +30 power if need be, but I imagine most would settle for a +stat in the final slot.

a implrtant question also is to know if gear + damage and + crit is aplied on pets

i mean if i wear feral gloves/ boots/ pants…

the extra damage and crit this gear provides where it goes?

ure elemental can crit or benefit from it

ure darkforms can benefit?

or its just when u mele hit in dsrkform or when u hit with swarm?

while 80% damage from the build comes from elementals / darkforms and nova its very important to know if extra damage from gear where its aplied ( also expertise 10 points extra damage )

Crit and +damage/+ele damage (ie Heart of Darkness) affect everything except minions. So guns, spells, DF attacks.
Minions are only affected by +minion stats, and skills/expertises/achievements that specifically refer to them. So for example, Leadership affects all minions, Summoning Circle only affects Demons, Master of the Flame only affects Fire Elementals, and +damage from achievements only affects the player.

i have tryed this build with max darklord 24 % crit and 4 xpertise on damage and all gear feral or unike with extra damage and crit and minion damage.

I have maden some trys killing bosses without any pet and with pets . And pets deal 60-70% of total damage. My damage just can come from melee atacks (cuz i am in Darkform) or swarm cuz i dont use any other skill to atack . That means swarm its max 25% or 30% of total damage and i am not sure if swarm crits .

I am thinking in took me off harlekin and wear a master hand freeing many skills i can add on phase elemental or fire elemental cuz if i get more mobs on phase all minion damage will be incresed and 5 fire elementals deal more damage perhaps my global damage is bigger than dualwielding 2 focus just for have more duration od posison effect on swarm and more damage from mele hits

also taking me off all crit from feral gear / heart of darkness / and diferent gear i am using and gettin double minion damage legendary gear (cheaper to get than unikes or good ferals) my damage is also incresed.

cuz the more important damage comes from pets not from swarm. I will continue using swarm but with just 1 harlekin not 2 . And with less crit chance.

How are ure feelings in this ? are u doing 50% 50% swarm pets or are u doing 6x% on pets /3x% on swarm like me?

perhaps my actual build has more damage on pets than swarm cuz i need to mod harlekins with just % incresed damage or % crit relics instead of splash stamina and int for feed i gopt right now

can some1 tell me wich is his % damage comming from pets and damage comming from directs sumoner hits and sawrms. and how many crit and minion damage is he using?

Hello,
I want to try a bit weird build which do not rely on minions too much.
I do not like pet builds (i know, wrong personal preference for summy player) so i would only use force elementals, some toxic and storm maybe as meat shield together with witch doctor.

Now, the question is whether it is viable to use venom spirit (which is quite good on evo) and swarm as main dmg dealing skills. I think i would have to go cc/cdb route with HA or maybe prisms with +3 swarm.
Other option would be gun summy but there I am at lost as to which weapons would be good. Is there something like hunter rail guns for summy (i mean decent dmg 1-hand gun) or 2-hand guns like el eels or aladdins would be good for this? And i suspect i need to go crit here too.