1.5 General Feedback & Class Feedback

Hello all,

I would like to go through some observations, critique’s etc. of the current 1.5 beta.

I will start with the ‘major’ things I see;

1. Level 57+ Enemies

This was a deliberate method of FSS to prevent most players finishing the game. After 7 levels over the player, scaling effects make the game increasingly unfair to the player. Remembering there were subscriptions, this would be the last stuff a non-subscriber would be able to do. All the subscriber content FSS released, was not at these levels. Fighting NM Sydonai, our groups notice that damage method is irrelevant, as he takes so little damage, anything can hit the ‘cap’, so high RoF attacking is all that matters. Example: I used 2 thorn bolters as a Blademaster, and was dealing the same amounts of damage as SoJ, Whirlwind, etc. so using those is best due to their 600 RoF. Watching the damage meter, you deal around 30-50 damage to NM Sydonai with just about anything. That’s pretty sad. Normal numbers for enemies up to 57 level, you deal thousands. I would like the levels from Guildhall onwards through St. Pauls and Hell itself to be taken a look at.

2. Taunts

Taunts working on bosses and so forth now is good, but there is a problem in that they are breaking most boss AI, thus trivializing these bosses; If you taunt Moloch as he raises his arms to call healers, he won’t. If you do this to Squadro, he won’t call his summons, if you taunt Ash, he just floats in the air doing nothing, etc. I like that taunts work on bosses to give the Guardian more use, but in the current they’re too powerful and too trivializing of content. Blademasters Call of Chosen does the same. These bosses were not meant to be taunted and doing so seems to break their AI. Sorry.

CLASS SPECIFICS

Summoner

Ok this is sure to be unpopular, but here’s the deal;

It’s way too good. Sorry.

You have more health than Guardians or anything else.

You have more or equal mitigation than Blademaster, almost rivaling Guardians themselves, sans AoD aura or Great Defender.

You have healing on par with Guardian.

You have arguably the best dps in the game.

This is not a ‘it’s just the nature of pet classes’ thing, they are quite literally better at everything than everything else. I love summoners, this is just the truth.

For starters, I think that Dark Form should not give +hp%. Perhaps melee speed, for actual melee Dark Form builds, as this is a sorely lacking trait until one obtains the Feral Gear. Just not % hp. %hp is too good for any and all possible summoner builds.

This makes it a defacto ‘must take’ skill regardless of build. There are absolutely no downsides to using DF on any build. Not being able to use guns isn’t even a drawback with the current game, as summoners all want swarm etc.

The drawback to summoners power was always slow and squishy, but they’re as tanky as the Guardian, or faster clear than the rest! There are zero negatives.

A focus item like Ironbound Valley is like wearing two templar chest pieces in each hand, Venom Armor and The armor perk etc. on top, it’s just outrageous. The increased speed of elementals is also pretty insane. I get it, it was annoying, but the class as-is has virtually zero drawbacks now, and is the best at everything. The class needs weaknesses like the rest.

The amount of health and mitigation the summoner gets needs to be scaled back if nothing else. It shouldn’t be tankier than templar, shouldn’t have more health than them either at the least.

Blademaster

Sword of Authority feels great. However, I feel the SoR -> SoA line should stop there, and a new line for just hamper/balance of power be made. Blademasters hamper is quite inferior to Guardians’ already.

Whirlwind feels amazing. Great changes.

Matched Blades giving willpower like it originally did is not good. The best part of this skill now, is you only need to dump 1 point, which I don’t feel is ideal. It really should continue to give strength, or at the least stamina. There is just zero advantages for willpower on such a melee class.

Call of Chosen/Angelic Orator could use the same 5 max ranks treatment the Guardians taunts received.

The charge line feels good now, except Onslaught; The best part of this change, is now you don’t need to take Onslaught. I feel this skill should get a buff, perhaps some passives like splash radius, sfx attack strengths or so be added as it’s best trait again, is you can skip it now.

Guardian

Guardian overall feels great. Adding SoJ to it is kind of a trap however. Without the extra sword the Blademaster has, and with the massive nerf to SoJ (it’s even worse than before FSS was to buff it) it’s just a power consumption trap on Guardian. I feel this skill could be totally removed from the class.

No other major issues with this class, however the Prayers are still pretty weak.

Auras like the elemental defense one will never be ideal as long as enemies get so far above player level also, as you can have 10k+ defenses, and one little zombie that’s level 59 will still instantly proc poison due to the level scaling penalties. If the level scaling is ever corrected to be around max 57 for the utmost, the appeal of this aura will correct itself. Sfx defenses work good, until that scaling kicks in.

On New Difficulty

Difficulty feels mostly the same for a long-time veteran, but what I’ve found most is that it’s actually hurting build diversity more than anything else, particularly the new Dawn of the Dead;

Essentially, poison/aoe or bust.

The mechanics of the super regen mobs and so probably sounded great on paper, but all it’s done in actual is force everyone into specific items and builds revolving around beating these mechanics. Moloch, Abyss and all feel fine otherwise, but for players wanting to beat the DoD and so on, the build diversity/creative gets lost. Cabalists get swarm, Hunters get Ravager rounds and splash weapons, Spider Mines and AoE. Guardians are simply taunt machines without additional purpose. Blademasters are good for burns or protecting the hunters if a little overwhelmed. It’s gone from everyone going crit, to everyone going toxic/AoE. The simple solution is to literally just ease off on the ‘it’s hard’ mentality, and massively reduce the regen of at least the fodder enemies. It’s not ‘hard’, it’s simply ‘bring poison and AoE’, and it really stifles diversity. Players focused on this stuff are mostly all exactly the same, worse than crit-era, as it’s more restrictive.

If you made it this far, thanks for reading.

While I’m sure a lot of this sounds negative, I want to say I am extremely grateful for the work you folks have done to bring this game back, and words cannot express my gratitude. I want to thank you guys from the bottom of me heart, it’s just magical to be playing Hellgate at all, and I wrote this to attempt to help make it even better. I love the game to bits, and thank you for all that you’ve done. Thank you.

*Edited for grammar.

1 Like

Taunting: I think the best alternative would be to find a way to not break the boss AI when doing so and kind of fix enemies in general just brainfarting whenever they get taunted (like ravagers actually stopping mid-leap). I’m still weirded by the idea that some bosses in this game just get basically immune to taunting from the faction that is supposed to do that to shift the battlefield on demand, since that’s kinda the thing with any tank in any game with a tank.

Summoner: I’d be up to dark form actually having melee speed, but that’d be redundant considering the whole butterfly-animation-canceling-whatever-the-fuck-it-was that people can do by simply mashing A and D while clicking furiously. If they get some speed on it, they’d need to make that speed actually worth something.

The weapons outline an issue that I personally have with cabalists: their guns just suck most of the time or are too gimmicky to actually be usable comfortably. Summoner is better off spamming evocation to deal more damage to more enemies, than dealing piss-poor damage with a garbage gun they’re likely using for some skill affix anyway, which just turns the class into an evoker with less evocation and more summons, except it reaches a point where the game plays itself and… well, what’s the point? I also think limiting those armor foci like some sort of shield would be a very nice change and force some actual variation, instead of stacking two and calling it a day. I’m fine with cabalists having their own armor weapon, since the other two factions have it, just it feels kind of exaggerated to stack them and I personally could never bring myself to do it, even knowing I’d be tankier.

I’d definitely like to see some QoL changes to summoner in the future in a way that promotes doing something other than basically nothing, such as streamlining demon summoning and an added skill bar to fit more buttons from the gargantuan slots terrorist that is that skill tree. That, and embracing the tankiness in a way that would sacrifice the summoner’s performance in other areas, as opposed to just being a direct buff that everyone should take and getting rid of it because it’s too good or something. Maybe it could be something for a future class instead?

Guardian: I’d honestly suggest a revamp of the auras tree in a way that the player is allowed to switch between all of them, instead of having to pick three or four to spend points on because of aura stability, grand aura and maybe great defender eating the rest. That, and I think it’d be phenomenal to actually have reason and comfort to switch auras mid-fight, instead of being a taunt-spamming machine with renewal and defense (which I make an effort not to play with due to how absurdly immortal guardian can get when stacking that in a crowd). I’m not sure how such a thing would be done and how it would impact the skill points distribution, but I really believe guardian would be much more appealing when allowed to change auras on the fly without concern for skill point allocation.

Regarding prayers, one of my issues with them is smiting specifically locking the player’s movement and also disabling shield wall when used, which doesn’t really make sense to me as I don’t feel it’s powerful enough to actually be blocked from being used like that. To me, prayers should be the thing a guardian uses when walled to not become the aforementioned taunt-spamming machine, even if it’s to become one for taunts and prayers instead. Pressing more than one button already goes a long way for my enjoyment, and guardian is probably the class I want to enjoy the most, given the pile of years I have on my back when it comes to playing games as support classes.

I beg to differ, they are tanky but damage medigation is still the guardian number one by far. The amount off amor you get as a templer is much higher then a cabalist with venom armor and two Ironbound.
Two Ironbound is also not optimal for summoner.
That said Summoners are tanky because of the minions and other skills they cant rly die if played carefully.

Not sure about that if you would do a tier list.

Dont remove the hp% bonus, melee summoner need that. But i would like a change that if you transform into Darkform, that you lose all elementals and cant cast them during Darkform.

Thats the Evoker but thats at this point just nitpicking from my side :wink:

But overall do you have all classes max geard and did all content to rly check what the difference is in endgame? I still need to do that.

You should check aladinf`s Gunvoker build out: