An emerging play-style

There is a new play-style emerging around the Abyss bosses, which cleverly defeats party mechanics as a whole, but also dumbs it down to a worrying level. In short, parties have started to do the Abyss bosses with only one player entering the Abyss, and the rest of the party waiting outside, only to enter for the final loot drop.

The long explanation, and you’re welcome to disagree here with me, is this. While the new play-style is being clever is it obviously not the best way for people to spend time together. Partly to blame here is HGG and the “glass cannon” play-style that it supported. Almost all the bosses of HGG could be done with only enough DPS and a 1,000 hit points. While the Abyss gear hints at it and the bosses more than boldly show it, can one hardly survive the Abyss bosses on a mere 1,000 hit points. Yet do players keep creating characters with even less than 1,000 hit points and are now standing outside the Abyss, waiting for the “pp” from the inside, which signals the imminent loot drop.

How can we bring back a play-style, where each player, class and build serves a specific purpose, fills a designated role, and allows everyone to be a part of the fight and where players aren’t ludicrously being reduced to bystanders?

We are forced to use this way since there around 40-50 players on server, and something like just 10 of them equipped enough to farm Abyss (exactly farm not hitting one boss for hours). I am sure most ppl understand there will be wipe so they play just for fun or to see content, not building a perfect chars for future.

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I’m not asking for an excuse why you do this. You’re obviously being lazy and no longer care. That’s why I’m asking what you think should be done or needs to be done to make this better.

I agree with the OP, but the devs have said in the FAQ that balancing classes and stuff will only happen when they have a completely stable build. I’m ok waiting for a better version of the game tbh, because with the community input we can balance the game.

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There will be beta where devs wil try to make some balance. And then we’ll farm and build chars again. Now they do not care what do we do, only making server stable. I think its ok right now.

The issue you mention will resolves itself by future balancing and bug fixing i’m sure.
With the giant clusterfuck abyss bosses are with a full team or even solo right now i feel it’s barely playable yet alone an enjoyable experience.

At the end of the day, DPS will always win though. We do molly with a full team atm, but it’s not to have a tank or support that helps the whole team but more a question of destroying it instantly for faster farming.

The glass canon playstyle you mention is a big part of the loot based hack n slash games. Why bother building around status ailments or defense when you can molest enemies before they touch you ?
I’m personally fine with this. The whole point of this kind of game is to feel powerful and being able to destroy everything super fast is the reward we all seek to acheive i think.

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The point of ops argument is that clearly the boss balance is done so it is more rewarding to solo the boss and pull everyone in for loot afterwards, wouldn’t it be better as a whole if the experience was rewarding for everyone to do, not just one person?

As everyone said this sort of thing will be fixed later after the server stability comes, but as I said to someone on discord, to dismiss the fact that it is happening would be foolish, you are ignoring an issue or a suggestion with the answer of “someone else will do something at some other time”, the op just wants to discuss what those someone’s, somethings are, I very my doubt op expects it right now.

Unless he does and the op should see the other answers

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How can we bring back a play-style, where each player, class and build serves a specific purpose, fills a designated role, and allows everyone to be a part of the fight and where players aren’t ludicrously being reduced to bystanders?

How about making all final run in to boss areas no portal zones. Also if anyone dies the game aborts run and sends all back to station. That would mean less opportunity for “bystanders” or “glass cannons” at least.
The game balance for players/bosses should aim to enable a “team” effort to be required for safe/efficient boss killing in what, after all, is a multiplayer server.

I can see what you mean, but from your description it would also punish players who die at all in an encounter which would be pretty harsh. Especially on Moloch, as you have 3 (or is it 4) zones to run through first.

Your ignorance is almost hurtful.

Anyone who plays during the alpha should consider themselves an alpha tester! You’re going to brag about it afterwards so you might as well earn yourself the right to it. Or why do you play at all, or only wait for the loot to drop and to be dreading the wipe, when you can stay away altogether? Why idle in front of the Abyss for the loot when the wipe will take it from you?

Perhaps you’re hoping for more than just future fixes, but for the wipe not to be real? Maybe if you wish hard enough for it you’ll get to keep it…

Honestly, I suggest you better start making sense now before somebody else will and you’ll get fixes to issues that aren’t issues or that will make everything worse.

Nobody wants discussions on theoretical and non-existing issues or just having a discussion when it’s too late. So now is a good time, because the beta phase is there to implement fixes. Lets have ideas and solutions ready by then.

Not as hurtful as your answer about something that had nothing against you or anybody.
You assume i’m gonna brag about being part of an alpha, aswell as participating on the idle farming you described. Both of these being wrong we can now talk about ignorance.

Fuck off and have a nice day.

Right back at you.

Calling you out for your ignorance, and getting back such a strong response is delight in my day. If you had waited a little bit longer with it and used your anger to form a much more brilliant and insightful response would I now have something to think about. Yet unfortunately did you miss the opportunity.

If you die in Standard/Elite you get an exp penalty (iirc, playing HCE atm) so why not a loot penalty if you die in the final boss run? In your Moloch example the no portal in/death kick area would only be the last zone and boss chamber. Enough to force some “investment” from the players involved in return for the loot they hope to receive.
If measures such as this were introduced which slowed down the rate of boss exploitation then drop rates could be tweaked so that sensible levels of reward are maintained.

Edit.
Another idea. Have say 5% increased drop per character class present in team- 5 different classes = 25% better drop for example.

I can see what you’re saying, but it could well be counter productive in that you’re forcing people to play all the classes when in the current balance some are better than others at late game. At this point I don’t think there’s much point in talking about balance changes when the devs are still fixing bugs and aren’t comfortable moving the game into beta. If you want to talk about those ideas in the future then I’m sure the devs will be interested in more input from the players.

However I’m not a dev (oh if I could only code worth a spit) so this is all conjecture at this point. I don’t think a loot modifier would be good for the game at present given the current balance, but I do see your point of view.

There is a simple solution for this situation. Just make the party increase of difficulty count also if not every member is in the same instance.

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I wouldn’t be certain that the game would be better with that. You’re not solving the problem, and it would create a power creep. If parties CAN be higher then high end bosses will be balanced accordingly.

While it sounds like the easiest fix is it also very easy to work around. Instead of idling outside the map while being in the party will players wait outside the map, stay out of the party and join up only at the very end.

Thus the difficulty would have to be set at the time of the party’s creation and by the maximum number of players within it and remain fixed. Meaning, we would no longer have a dynamic scaling of the difficulty at all, but players would have to make a more conscious decision at the time of the party creation. I don’t personally see this as a problem and I don’t think many will either.

I do see a plus side to this though. When the difficulty can be set in such a way then it would allow a single player to create a 5-player party for example, do a solo kill and get a fully scaled-up loot drop as a reward. Or a 4-player party could attempt to kill a boss without first having to wait endlessly for a fifth player to join up. Considering that there aren’t many players on the server would this be a rather nice side effect.

Edit:
It would also allow to gain more XP as a single player or as a small party, making the grind for XP faster - if one is willing to fight harder mobs of course.

I do think however this emerging play-style is something that can be addressed later when the game has moved out of this Alpha state, and the devs can then spend the time working on class and enemy balance. Until that point this thread is kind of pointless as the suggestions of balance are assuming everything will stay the same

A thread isn’t pointless only because oneself cannot make a point. If you want to talk about class and enemy balance - you sure don’t seem to think it was pointless of you to mention these - then do take your thoughts into the appropriate threads or make your own thread.

Your disrespect towards Zeel was uncalled for. You seem to expect respectful thought out answers, but that retort lost my respect for you. No doubt you don’t care, which is why your ignorance about your behavior leads to less meaningful interaction with others.

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