[CLOSED] 2038 Ideas: Skill/Class/General changes

You are correct :smile: many items in the Abyss unique weapon set are not currently droppable by any monster, and the legendaries are missing in some cases too. This was as intended by FSS in this patch for some reason, so we’ll eventually add them back in when the time is right.

I could add that while fighting lvl61+ mobs are indeed challenging they drop items (mostly mods) that are useless because of the item level range, and because you can’t nano an item past lvl52. So i think it would be more suitable for everyone if you could increase the difficulty multiplier every 5 level and keep monster level around lvl55 at max.

I’d argue that increasing the players’ level cap to 55 would solve that issue as well. This would drop even the lv63 ones down in the acceptable -+10 bracket, making fighting them (and NM Sydonai) more reasonable, and it would make such mods usable again by allowing enough Nanoforge upgrades.
As a beneficial byproduct, this would also possibly remedy the issue of similar weapon lines not ending up where they should be (ie Exothermics vs Arclights), and allow for the endgame ~lv52 weapons to also be nano-able once or twice :slight_smile:

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  • When deleting an email should the mouse be pre-positioned automatically onto the Accept-field similar to how it’s already being down in the dialogue to dismantling items.

This will speed up the deletion of a large number of mails, which one usually gets when one sends items to other players and characters. It’s just a small move for a mouse, but a great step for mankind…

Some Feature Implementations (Concept Design):

Login:

  • Save account for next login with [checkbox option]

Exit Game Functions:

  • Add option to change to another character

Normal & Elite Mode:

  • Allow the option to change from normal mode to elite mode at cost of losing all items via character

Compose Email:

  • Change the context of email to mail

Subscriber Only:

  • Recolor the text to red with a red strike

Portal usage

  • Allow the cancellation of a portal while it’s being casted (possible double tap key to cancel)

Characterization:

  • Display Luck in the stats menu
  • Display Floating Text for damage/healing/other (Enable/Disable via Gameplay settings)

Inventory/Storage/Shared:

  • Increase the space
  • Auto stack craft materials into storage when shift-clicking
  • Add auto disassembler & auto destroy items (possible keybind alternatives)

Transmogrifying Cube:

  • Should not take up inventory space, possibly add it’s own ALT menu icon
  • Possible rename to “Transmuting Cube”

Friends List & Guild Panel:

  • Add a searchbar function to find names

Quests:

  • Allow the use of quest items like (Cleanser) to be picked back up by the NPC (after completion)
  • Remove the gain attribute points from all side quests that are given to characters
  • Add the attribute points every 10 levels to compensate for the removal mentioned above
  • Give the player a skill retrainer after the completion of the game (2 total) for (Normal & Nightmare)
  • Increase the drop rates of kill creatures ?/? for quest items

Quest Log:

  • Increase the size of quests that can be accepted
  • Add a select all track option
  • Organize log with sub menus for “zones”

Consignment House:

  • Increase the size of items that can be sold by you

Merchant Panel:

  • Allow right-click hold (add to circle menu) buy in stacks
  • Organize the MISC options for purchasing items
  • Reduce the analyzers cost to 5
  • Reduce the cost of MISC items (exclude guild herald)
  • Allow blueprints to be sellable (very low cost is acceptable)
  • Add additional menu for buying blueprints

NPC follower

  • Add a item that allows you to create a NPC vendor to sell items on the go (lasts 1 minute)

Party Panel

  • Add a button to reset all instances (1 click)

Itemization

  • Power cost penalty context should be +% not -%

Skills:

  • Add a additional skillbar directly above the default one with the option to hide it

Donation Buffs:

  • Make text non-spammable

Monsters:

  • Jumping toads (tone it down they jump way too high)
  • When units cloak/invisible & avoid collision we should still deal damage to them & not move through them
  • Spirits ignore pathing + infinite range once targeted, phase bursting you no matter where you’re (they should not ignore pathing)

Level Design:

  • Add a cow level
  • Add a endless dungeon of some sort

May add more eventually…

Interesting suggestions @Skappelton

I’ve heard the endless dungeon one a few times. In your opinion, how would that work? Level increase of mobs each layer down you go? What about a station at x interval? I think Global modified Westminster to have a station. Would the reward be better loot because of high level mobs or just that you can grind/challenge yourself?

It would be nice to also see the account name of a player on your friend list, guild member list in some form e.g.:
Charname (Accountname)

Displaying the current luck on your character sheet.

I’m still brainstorming the idea so I cannot give you a 100% run down, I’m not really concerned with where it would be stationed because I’m confident enough that you would find the right place for it.

Endless Dungeon: (Just concepts, uncertain)

  • Make it so you cannot portal in or out of the endless dungeon once started
  • Is it free to enter or must requirements be meant to enter? (Maybe a key from stonehenge & abyss?)
  • Add a boss at the very beginning (Gatekeeper) as a test battle before endless starts?
  • Higher experience the further you go down
  • Higher chance of loot drops the further you go down
  • Increase mob levels? Increased mob Stats? or Improved mob AI behaviors?
  • Add a quest like abyss, each floor you move down a low chance of spawning a boss?
  • Possibly add the option to leave the endless dungeon with a command instead of just death.

In my opinion you want the endless dungeon to feel optional, like stonehenge & the abyss. I think by making it harder/challenge the further you go down some people might want to take a break & go back to stonehenge/abyss. Like perhaps endless dungeon is more party dependent than others, again these are just ideas/concepts.

Erich the stat respec vendor asks for way too much palladium for a stat point (250k per point) i think it shouldn’t be more than 10-15k, and then if someone wants to respec more than 10, will buy a full respec token.

General Merchant Ko is also selling things for way too much, 190k for a mod that will be most likely crap 99% of the time is absolutely not worth it. Since the gap between buy and sell values are already huge i suggest to change the prices to about 150% of the common version of the item on that level. You won’t ever directly making money by buying these anyway, and would love to see some ppl around there trying their luck. At the current rate i couldn’t imagine anyone would going near that merchant.

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Here’s a thought. Increase the RoF of Baneblasters to 600/m, and of Sracs to 400-600/m.

It’s poetic how the best Cabalist gun seems to be Techsmith’s Noxious Effluviator, a lv16 Legendary, strictly due to its RoF of 600/m. Baneblasters are higher level Noxies that sit on a horrendous 300/m, so bumping the formers’ RoF to match the latters’ will finally provide Cabalists with some decent endgame guns. Apart from benefitting the struggling Summoner class and providing an alternative to DF builds, Gunvokers (whom I’ll never understand but love nonetheless <3) will also get an alternative gun option.

As for Sracs, they seem to suffer from the same issue; having their RoF be half of that of their Unique counterpart, Hu’s Hypershot. Bumping all Sracs’ RoF to 600/m may dethrone Hu’s (in the case of Mythic Sracs with good properties anyway), so if we’d rather avoid that, even 400-500/m should suffice to provide an endgame alternative for Hunters.

In my eyes both seem to be reasonable suggestions, if one considers that almost no other class/build would prefer a Unique over its (ideal/specialized) Mythic counterpart in the endgame (except perhaps Grimaces). Noxies and Hus are possibly the only 2 weapons in the game to have such massive difference in performance compared to their regular counterparts, and I believe that rectifying that would provide a welcome boost to their factions.

A few general suggestions to make the game smoother :

Remove all side quests. They’re absolutely annoying, not well balanced, involve a lot of backtracking/PRDing and instance resetting when a zone doesn’t even provide enough mobs to complete it. Sadly they’re mandatory because of attribute points. Adding the total attribute points from them when levelling up is a fast and easy solution i think.
I know that this is more of a personnal taste but these quests and the time sink they involve is a big block to reroll for build test and multiple different characters.

Inventory and storage space need to be increased by a LOT ^^. Inventory wouldn’t be that bad if the game didn’t make us keep a lot of things with us. Essences, crafting items, kits, effect alteration removers, cube. fact is that more than half of this small space is already taken by things you keep with you because they end up here every minutes so we don’t put them in the stash. I made sense when T3unfun was selling storage but right now, it’s a nuisance more than anything else.

It has been discussed already but auto dismantlers was one of the most addicting things HGG ever had. reducing the amount of scraps we get from dismantling items could be reduce to compensate. The problem right now is the time it takes to dismantle things. It has to be done one by one with the right click wheel. If auto dismantlers can’t be a things, what about a shortcut like shift.ctrl.click to instantly break items ?

While it’s more a balancing issue than a game issue, i think that a lot of guns has to be balanced. I haven’t played gun chars that much yet, but i can already say that most of the guns are useless. The game has a lot of really fun guns with cool behaviors that are sadly useless because of their balancing. I always end up using a generic SMG or gatlings. Launcher could use way more radius, rocket guns could use procs or more projectiles etc etc.
All cabalist guns are horrible i can’t see myself using any of them especially when i need foci to cast evo spells.

HGG had a button that allowed us to reset instances, it was good. Having to create a party then leave it isn’t intuitive and i can see a lot of new players not knowing how to do.

Mob density feels really low in some areas. Wake Hallow for exemple is so empty i don’t think anyone would spend more time than it takes to find essence areas, maybe stopping for elites at best. More mobs is more fun i guess.

Highly doubt that’ll happen.

Then how about suggesting to fix and improve them? Such as:

  • Increase target mob spawn count to accommodate for them sometimes appearing out of bounds, getting killed by NPCs, hiding in weird places, etc
  • Reevaluate the order of side quests. Maybe not all of them (Broker is fine :stuck_out_tongue:), but enough to balance the effort with the reward.
  • Maybe consider fewer quests with something like 5 points as a reward instead of a ton of quests that reward 1.

Yeah, it’s more work, but removing them is the “sweep under the rug” solution which isn’t ideal.

I’d argue that they’re not. If you get to the point where you’re relying on the extra stats, you can:

  • Work for the extra points via side quests (potential quest changes notwithstanding), which would be the easiest solution assuming lack of funds. Most side questlines don’t require backtracking once you’re familiar with the quest order.
  • Farm or buy a retrainer
  • Make a new character, obviously the least-desired option

That said, if it’s determined that certain gear loadouts at endgame or during leveling or whatever require higher than ideal costs, then sure, maybe the per-level attribute count can be reconsidered. I know the point is about the time put in rather than the gear requirements themselves, but I’d think the available number of attributes while leveling is adequate for at least most builds, not designed around bouncing between builds for experimentation or whatever. If you pick a build and decide you want to switch, you gotta work for it! (alpha state aside since that’s a different discussion entirely)

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How about removing the attribute points and just adding them to the main quests?

This would solve the problem quickly and anyone who wants to do the side quests can do them and nobody would need to feel pressured to do them.

This changes once you get to Nightmare mode. The normal quest maps get quite crowded, plus you get a lot more invisible or barely visible mobs.

But frankly, even when it was nice to play in HGG did it introduce a lot of things that directly led to the most excessive grinding and farming. Like the reset button and the dense rooms directly in Stonehenge, and the repeatable quests from Holborn to Parl. Square & Tokyo. Is this really where we should go back to?

Also auto dismantlers, just my opinion, are a work-around to hide a boring mechanic. Perhaps the game should just drop the components and we should remove the dismantling function entirely. Why first drop the item to then have it automatically dismantled? Just directly drop the components with the other loot. Done.

Since alot of people bring up Hellgate Global because of how popular it was, I still remember when you could just buy skill retrainers with real money & other things, which I’m well aware this server is not going to do & that’s fine, I still want to address this to get it out of the way because apparently everyone thinks farming is the way to go about things here. If you’re a GM of higher power I suppose you could just “create the item” & sell it at the consignment house, wow that was difficult, so I can’t possibly understand how they feel about farming since they can easily make a item appear before their eyes.

Building in Hellgate London is a “guessing game” it’s not fun, it’s frustrating, everyone has to figure out how everything works & there’s very little information to look at in fact there’s quite a bit of it missing. If skills were explained better then it might not bother people so much. This dramatically slows down the process of questing or moving forward so they might just party up & then other players could complain that they’re hardly putting any effort into helping out the group, so what then? They’re forced to make a new character? I hope you realize alot of people aren’t going to be happy about it. On Global I suppose you could of just bought your way out of it (no I didn’t like it) but there was no other way to get retrainers other than to farm it or CH I suppose, you mys well call it end game content & not everyone likes to farm & before you mention that “this game is probably not for you” then you might as well say that the game is going to lose over a fraction of the players because I’m sure they have plenty of other games to play.

So this is Hellgate London or is it? To me it wasn’t a finished game, it executed well but still had alot coming for it but never made it that far, so I don’t know how anyone can say farming is the way to go about things & be so driven by it as if that’s how it was suppose to be. Farming is great when it comes to finding gear but when you combine it with skill progression it will become under appreciated.

Eventually there are builds that work for everyone, it’s up to the developers to expand on lesser builds to make them on par with everything else so that we can all play something different & unique.

Quick note,

Most GMs have been playing the game for years, and/or currently play on legit, non-GM accounts. So we can certainly understand :slight_smile:

That aside.

The community does indeed not seem to be as keen on writing guides as back in '07-'10 or so. However, players do still share information in the forums (be it in guide form or not) and populate the wiki. If you feel the particular information you seek should be more available, I’d suggest asking the veterans to do so, or joining such guilds as FTL, where such information should be more circulated.
Yes, certain skills and mechanics could use more clarification in-game, but sadly there’s a long list of priorities to tackle before addressing this.

I do understand how the ability to respec may not feel like it should be dependant on farming. Different players come from different gaming backgrounds, and Hellgate’s strictness in that area may not be appealing to everyone.

I’d argue that productive feedback in that area would be useful at this point. Increasing drop chances, adding a Skill Retrainer vendor, removing Wake Hallow so that farming Moloch becomes faster, adding Skill Retrainers to more bosses, giving one out for free at lv50, and so forth. All are reasonable suggestions that are more useful on the table than off it.

That’s the plan indeed :slight_smile: Within reason, of course, as perfectly balancing every single build and factor should be borderline impossible.

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When i said “remove all side quests” i should have precised in their current form. Makin sure we can complete them in a single area without having to force respawn missing mobs, putting the att.points in the main quests and a lot of ideas i saw suggested around here are all valid and should be considered.

I’m not a fanboy of Global and the way they handled things, but we gotta admit a few features were interesting.
The removal of elite mode and NM difficulty for exemple was for me a good thing. While keeping hardcore should have been a thing, putting everyone by default on the same level is a good idea. Scaling the difficulty to Hell to replace NM equivalent was an other good one.
Removing NM had (on me at least) the side effect of making the side quests more tolerable, as you know you won’t have to do the exact same things again.

I’m not asking for Global 2 as it was balanced with the ass and they did put too many core feature behind their paywall but everything wasn’t that bad as far as game mechanics and tedious aspect management.

I don’t think you should remove Wake Hallow at least leave it in the game, just for exploration or luck finding so players can see what it was about & such. Some of us want to see the content that was originally structured in the game, if you want to make Moloch farms faster by all means entirely up to the team but at least leave some of the core elements alone.

As far as the drop rates go I cannot give feedback for this because I don’t know the rates & I’m not a farmer.

A skill retrainer vendor that sells them at a reasonable price sounds like a great idea otherwise skill retrainers will become the new currency.

As I suggested before giving out a maximum of 1 skill retrainer per game completion would suffice that’s a total of 2. In my opinion it gives people the incentive to complete & play the game (twice) possibly something to think about & please do because alot of people come onto the server asking about skill resets.

For skill retrainers, i like the PoE approach for this. Small adjustments are easy to do point by point to correct mistakes and do small changes (which can happen quiet often in HG due to the nature of +skill items and the 10/10 caps).
However, making a full respec is something that people should expect to be slightly more expensive.
For exemple, a vendor that sell single respec point for let’s say 10k pal would be convenient but a full respec would cost 500k or a few farming sessions.

Reskilling is definitly an issue. If the droprates for reskillers are as they used to be its a drag. I am currently leveling up and definitly would like to put points here and there. But i know i will regret it later on so i don’t- takes a bit of the fun of leveling up.

Thank you for all your great ideas! We are closing this topic for now, as we are totally full with ideas, improvements, and fixes. Keep your notes on ideas for when we re-open the suggestion thread!