General feedback/suggestions (generic titles are the best)

After a lenghty convo yesterday on Discord, i wanna give my feedback about the game, after playing it for a month and a half now.
I just want to say that it might sound negative, but i’ve spent the last month and half playing more hellgate per days than i ever have. So needless to say i’m not complaining as much as it sounds :stuck_out_tongue:
I enjoyed 99% of it, and Im really looking for more.

I played early alpha and then stopped until beta, so some changes i ll discuss might not be part of 1.5/beta release itself as i ve missed some patch notes before that point.
I only want to approach balance/game design aspects, not bugs. This game doesn’t contain a single thing with no bugs. We have all accepted it to some degree, and learned to play around.

-Abyss area is a complete mess.

Invisible walls, thight corridors, spaghetti layout.
We all know how it feels to fight Talox when he spawns in a small ramp. Camera can’t follw, we can’t see shit to what s happening, and thus can’t play around the fight mechanics.
Same goes for Fulcrum when he spawns totem on a different floor, or when squadro just runs away somewhere.Some skills don’t even work in there, like Tempest.

I’d love a complete redesign of the Abyss area. A more open layout would make a HUGE difference, letting us approach fights in a less cheezy and overall more gameplay orientated manner.

-Hunter guns are really lacklusters.

1.5 did nerf a lot of end game guns. Right now as a hunter the ONLY nice one is the Odin’s Legacy.
I heard snipers were really good pre nerf, and right now they are a dead breed.
Most end game hunters are using guns which drop at lvl 21-24, namely Gau’s and Bunkport. While i really like low level uniques being relevant end game, it becomes an issue when there’s nothing equivalent later on.
I’m not only talking about raw dmg numbers, but also weapon behaviour:
Ravager, Odin, Mastodon, Mags, Lee’s etc are all pretty straight forward projectile weapons. But the game has so much more funky guns that i feel it’s restrictive to only have projectile as options.
For exemple, i tried the Rumdrunk Uproar(which is again a low lvl gun), and it’s FUN. It shoots a cluster of nades like Skullsplitter, which rewards positionning, distance, but the damage is too low
compared to his Bunkport brother, and as skullsplitter, too random.

My suggestion would be to add more field/laser/sniper/rusty pickaxes launcher viable end game.
But more importantly, i think a rebuff of end game guns are much needed. Grinding 21-23 instead of Desi/Talos/DoD to gear a hunter doesn’t feel right.

-Hunters are slow.

Not having any movement speed on end game gear is honestly preventing me from enjoying hunters more. I enjoy positionning a lot when it comes to ranged glass canons classes in such games,
but right now, every mobs can outrun a hunter, creating a “kill them before they reach you” situation.
Templars have ton of runspeed on seraph gear, whick makes sense as they need to reach melee range, and cabalists have 30% MS + sprint AND blink on boots.

I’d like to try techa boots with a unique stat like SPRINT 7 but no MS, acting as some sort of dash for them. I know Deathstompers already have a lot of BiS stats, but so as gliders and night striders so why not :slight_smile:

-Shield is useless.

Too many mobs can wipe any amount of shield we have in a single hit. I can’t remember if it happens because we get crit or something else but it feels really bad. Especially because there’s nothing we can do about it.
As long as a lvl 20 mob 30 meters away can remove all of your shield with a random hit you can’t dodge or play around, this layer of defense will be irrelevant.
Add on top of that entire bosses and areas that EMP you all the time and it makes some skill useless like the ones on Evo, or all shield related expertise.And since 1.5 we also have shield pen fields from elites, which i already expressed my disagreement to these.

Not sure what to suggest about that part honestly, other than lowering the general hate the game has toward that layer of defense, making that option never considered.
Let’s imagine if Seraph set provided the shield it has now, but lowering HP drastically at the same time. Enabling some kind of CI gameplay (all shield no HP under that), using the previously mentionned
massive movespeed from the set to quickly extract from combat, recharge the shield and dive back in.

-Crit is still king.

Crit received a major nerf after 1.5 but nothing else to compete with it. I like crit as any other person, it’s an easy and familiar mechanic for this type of games, easy to understand and build around.
Some classes have affinities toward crit, while some others have an harder time if they choose to go that way (MM vs Engi for exemple).
Where it hurts the most tho is on Evo.
Crit is the only viable way to play Evo sadly. If you like damage of course.
Veiled threat is not used because Dark Visage has higher CC/CDB. Caster gear doesn’t matter because the “dmg of evocation skills” is nothing compared to crit.
Caste CCM/CDB needs to go. It’s clunky too use, requires plenty of mod/weapon swapping and provides way too big of a damage boost to be healthy. General CCM/CDB is fine though i think,
if again, we have other non-crit solutions.

We had good suggestions on discord and i’ll try to name a few from memory:

Higher dmg of evocation skill/power cost/use rate on caster gear to try to compete
WILL should give +1% evocation dmg per point
Better dmg scaling per point invested into skills. Spectral Bolt is the perfect exemple of a rewarding investment.
Crit orientated foci with low damage, with others that could prevent crits all together while having bigger base dmg/sfx strenght.
Synergies between skills. Chance to proc a free lightning field while channeling Arc or free flameshards when channeling firestorm, casting two tempest at once instead of one when reaching 10/10.
Evos are supposed to be the SFX kings so they could get access to unique stats like Ignite damage, SFX duration and so on.
SFX strenght mods need to go back to WILL feed.

-Gundians are dead(?)

I have to admit i didn’t had the courage to go further with mine yet, because of sluggishness and boredom so maybe some people can provide better feedback on that part.
Nerfing shrapnels was a good idea, but it killed the entire gundian archetype at the same time i think.

I’m not sure what to suggest here either, as I’m not familiar with enough with recent patch to what was my favotite build during alpha.
More gun options, templars only expertise providing fire rate maybe ?

-Side quests are an abomination.

I’m not talking about the lore or the writting on them. It’s not for me in this type of game. Some NPCs are colorful and great, but from a gameplay perspective, they are an insult to anyone’s time.
It might in fact be THE single aspect of Hellgate i hate the most. A 5 years old with any number of functionning braincells could have designed better and more interesting quests than what FSS did.
Bugs aside, the amount of unniteressting fetching and backtracking is so dumb, it’s the only reason i never like to reroll. When i do, i rush to normal brompton, get to r10 or so, equip dmg/movespeed just to be able to plow through these quests as fast as possible.

I’d love to completely remove the need to do them, by removing their att points reward.

ATT points could be gained or so many more meaningful ways like killing bosses, crafting tokens with materials from various places in the game, reaching r50 etc.

All in all, I’m still having a great time and i hope that the few suggestions i gave can help the game going further, even if i still have no idea how easy they would be to implement in a realistic time fashion, beause i have no clue about how developpment works ><


I was silent lurker on discord so I write my opinion here :slight_smile:
Maybe FSS intended cabalists for SFX but players obviously do not. Therefore the rush for crit-cc/ccm/cdb. While there was only one cookie cutter build in HGG it was powerful and it did dmg and alpha evoker had the flavor of that power. Currently my evo is just mediocre dmg dealer but she deals dmg and I do not want her reduced to pyroman/poisoner etc.
So, please, if you consider removing ccm or crit from evos give use us means to deal dmg, not just SFX. Pretty please :pray:

what if… instead of removing CCM, both ele damage and sfx attacks had a similar power multiplier option?

Yes, im not saying removing crit without giving something in returns or it would make Evo even weirder with no options at all ^^

Difficult to say, they are ridiculous hard to gear and now with str feed for proc mods (wich is good imo) you cant rly use the seraph armor for easy bonus dmg. Order armor wich is based on only stamina seems the best so far wich i like, because i dont want to use with all the same armor at the end.
Only negative wich have alot of armor typs, they dont have anything to offer.
The reason why its ridiculous to gear is:

  • On hit mods are stupidly rare, its impossible to lvl as a GunGuard you have to rely on granate launcher to lvl. Most of the mods of mine i buyed from NPC vendor(Multiple hours of farming for one with 5%+) or CH, wich they never have any because i buyed the handfull they had. I never found one for ilvl 49+ im not sure if i ever found a usefull one.
    The Fun part, when all on kill procs would be deleted and on hit takes there place too, then it would be kinda fine.

  • Find mythic order gear with %dmg str stam/or acc %armor. You need %dmg to do dmg in AB.

I have to test more but as i said idk if i can get the gear to do that and i farm a lot, a lot a lot.
Some tips where to find Mythic gear and mods? With that said char.

The problem is that non-crit dmg dealer should not have always sfx as an bonus.
Then it would be the new meta in an instant.

But as you said:

I add the Invoker armor with % sfx-str. This should be THE armor for pure sfx user.
Problem is, sfx must be changed too so it becomes relyable.
What i want to say is, sfx user must sacrifice dmg or they get to strong.

Let me make it more clear:

Crit orientated foci with low damage, with others that could prevent crits all together while having bigger base dmg OR higher sfx strenght.

It should be WAAAAAAYYYY more usefull for classes wich uses shields instead of just being a very short protection for in case of randome sfx.


Great stuff, thanks for submitting this. I’ll get in some scattershot responses now and try to follow up more thoroughly later.

Absolutely agreed. A boss arena would be lovely.

Agreed on both accounts.

This is after the -MS reduction of Techas, mind you. But yeah, I see this point.

I believe shields have great conceptual merit, but I do agree the shield values and attack overload may need to be reconsidered. A part of this lies in how skillsets interact (or don’t) with them, I feel. Say, Summoners and BMs.
The shield 1-shot bit specifically is a very elusive ocassional bug, which really needs to be flushed out.

Sadly agreed. If you remember my part in that discussion, I pulled much of my stance from this.

In turn, this ties in very well with this;

Much of this discussion tends to be severely misunderstood, so let me clarify here as I did on Discord and that thread.
Nobody wants to ruin Evokers, or force them into being sfxers. The whole argument lies in two observations;

  • Crit is way too powerful and thus BiS (with my personal take being that that’s insanely odd for a caster class with a completely different inherent design up till lv50), and
  • The class has a natural affinity for sfx, but severely underperforms in that regard (as admitted by such prominent Evokers as 4tw and Audacity in that discussion).

So the idea is not to force Evokers away from crit, or into the sfx role. It’s simply to let them use more diverse, and more thematically appropriate, tools towards being better at what they’re supposed to do. Them dealing damage through crit is a means to an end, but it’s bafflingly off-theme and very hard to balance or account for.
The ideal goal for me would be to let them achieve what Summoners, BMs, and Engineers (off the top of my head) did; let them focus on skillset-bound assets, and work without needing crit while still being able to get it.
Which, to me, begins by addressing the poor skillset situation of Evokers, and then the whole ele/CCM debacle. But it doesn’t end with either nerfing the class to the ground, or forcing it into one specific (debuffer) role.

While I agree to some degree, I love that the class at least has 2 (?) workable sword builds. That said, Gundians might need a look themselves.

I see this point, but it’s one insanely complex topic to tackle in a hurry. Side quests did mean to be more meaningful (ie faction standings), and stat gains seem like a bandaid solution, but it’s a tough balance without the actual system in place.

Yup. This is one front that’s on the table, as we started pushing some armor lines forward.

Agreed. But in such an underbaked system it’s really hard to try to juggle affixes around and line them all up in anything more complex than a dichotomy. It IS the goal, but it’s a huge challenge to do properly - and satisfy extremely different perspectives at the same time.

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It is mind baffling for me that this is surprising.

In games like this there is the base, the raw dmg.
Raw dmg is increased dmg, add dmg and so on.

Then comes variety, what gets added to it.
Crit, cdr, dot,fc, increases in certain skill typs and so on.

This game has only crit and sfx and sfx is unreliable means it has only Crit.
The only thing you can add to your raw dmg is crit, it is the only option.

If for example sfx would be a stackable dot wich do armor ignoring dmg and keeps the effects(poison=no healing/shock=no skills…) then you could do mods, armor and so on based on that(sfx duration,+to total stacks). You dont do instant dmg, you ramping your dmg up but you have the effects and it is armor ignoring.

Or if “Faster use rate” would be a thing (increase of animation speed and cooldown reduction) instead of increased use rate.
Then stuff like demonspine, skullsplitter, serpens, tempest and so on would do a lot more dps.
And then things like powerregen on armor/mods weapons would be important.

As long there arent other meaningfull methods to add on your base dmg, crit as the only option will be the only option.

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