Grenader Built -works

Hi there,

i have reskilled my MM to try something different and it turned out pretty nice. So here it is, the Grenader:

https://london2038.com/skill-planner/#Marksman,50,50,0,v1.0000110000000000229210000999121200

I went for all grenades max except the stun grenade because i figured shield penetration can be had on gear and if shields are a problem one could use maybe one point in EMP blast. Sometimes it would be nice to have (yesterday i had a Rifcoil Map in St. Pauls which took me ages).

Most important is Multishot Max. You can get out all Grenades and a strike in one Phase with some special gear and that is quite a barrage. Thats also why i gave some points in strikes.

Beacon for Bosses to get the extra dmg and ele strength.

For the perks i have chosen to only use Stamina and try to get my gear working without further points in stats. Therefore i can perk damage, ele attack strength and powerreg or will (not deciided on this one) to some extend. Ele attack strength is super usefull in this build.

Now to the gear and here the build differs from the normal MM quite heavily:

Of the utmost importance is increased userate of MM skills as you will use skills all the time and Multishot should be up as often as possible or you wont down the Bosses.
Also the 4 grenades can only be spammed if the cooldown is below 4 seconds. So i have a bit of "userate of tactical skills on the gear. Powerpoints, Powerreg and Willpower are stats that should also be found somewhere. 300+ Powerpoint are a value to aim at.

As headpiece i have a Navshell (inherent 7% userate of MM skills) with +1 skills and 15% damage (lucky).
As shoulders i have scout shoulderplates sadly not the perfect ones with +% damage AND userate.
On the Chest the Techa battlecore is optimal as it has 10-15% userate and damage. The leg Chest i have has Powerpoints, Willpower, AA, 6% userate and 6% damage which is ok. A Good Northrops Guru could be an alternative too.
Now gloves, which are one of the most important pieces because they can have the tactical affixes on them.
Theoretically you can get 5% userate MM, 5% Damage, 10+ userate Tactical and 10 decrease Powercost tactical. I have a mix of userate MM, Tactical and Powercost and some other stats.
Belt would be Techa because of the insane powerreg and +aa though over other items you lose some inherent userate, i have a simple one with damage, userate and power.
For legs i have Recon Jambarts in the perfect Version with damage and userate, not so hard to get but there are also better options with aa and power.
Boots i found Kyles the perfect choice. They can be found with userate and damage which i would crown the most useful MM piece of gear in the game, though i dont have them. But speed is super important with the bosses. I couldnt down Molloch without Kyles. With them it was fairly easy. Because of the high userate, you can use escape often (and get a crazy speed boost) and then the points in escape artist are super usefull aswell as Sprint. The movement speed will be needed in case you get the 2 Techa pieces.

Now talking weapons. My main set consists of a Amir type barrel gun with 20% combat damage and a Hu type with a usefull skill (in my case Napalm Strike), combat damage and decrease powercost.
Important is the combat damage and other tactical affixes you can get since all other affixes are useless when throwing grenades (they dont crit or use increase damage/ele on weapons). The Amir Type gun has the advantage of having 2 relic slots which can be used to get willpower and powerreg up. The Hu type has a Tech slot which can be used for further tactical affixes. I had the luck to find a +22 Willpower Mythic Ammo which is perfect for this gun and an increase userate+powerreg tech.

With this set you basically run around and spam grenades and strikes like crazy. It should work fluently for most of the time. When laying down your Multishot barrage you need a pot afterwards. Stoneheges rooms clear like in tokio with the striker engi :wink:

Another cool playstyle is with a long cd Weapon and a grenade after each shot. And for that the Vodoo comes into play as it play very fluently. I wish i had one with combat damage auged on it. I use this style in Stonhenge or wider areas with flyers or when i just want to run around shotgun style.

For the third slot one can try a doomthumper with the 9 points in strikes, though i dont think it is needed.

In the end you have 40% Combat damage for you grenades on your mainset, a super high userate of skills, 300+ Power, 1000+ powerreg (you still need pots) and a good bonus to ele attack (i can stunlock Ash or Dreadnaught with the vodoo).

Normal gameplay is straight forward though you dont push forward like Gunguard. In Catas you checkout where you place your barage and then unleash hell and then push on and clean the floor.

The rotation is also quite important. Because Toxic grenade is the strongest damagewise but hard to aim. To have it right in front of your feet you need to bounce it. Also mobs tend to run out of the field so it should be followed or led by a stun grenade. If you have the time you can use Strike, phase (longest fuse), stun, toxic and then fire for maximum damage. I also always have the trigger on the stun first, because when the mobs are stunned you get the time to aim correctly.

A good mouse is also a plus otherwise this build gets hard to use when spamming the different skills.

Bosses are different though as this char is not singletarget and therefore suffers a bit in that area and some Boss abilities counter that.

When doing Molloch you need to spare up Multishot for the time he spawns his healers and hope he does that piece by piece (he does that currently as he is bugged). So this takes a while but with Kyles you are super fast and can outrun him easily, turn throw, run turn throw -works.

Dreadnaught is a pain and you really need Kyles here as he is super fast and owns you otherwise. Also in the last phase he digs in constantly and heals up. I thought i could not kill him but then i pulled out the vodoo and was surprised i can stunlock him.

Fulcrum on the other hand, a pain for most chars, is easy. When he spawns the Mastertotems you need 2 Multishot barrages to down them and it doesnt matter if there is a venom up because you can run away afterwards out of the range of the deadly swarm that is being triggered by damage. The imps also constantly die in the Toxic Grenade field.

Squadro is semi hard as his adds are fast and they hit hard as does Squadro in melee. So there is quite some running, positioning and checking out how to get them all under you barrage. But i could kill him fairly safe.

Haven’t tried Talox by now. He is hard anyways but the distance to the mobs and the godd poison of the toxic grenade should help, i can be wrong though but then the vodoo will help.

Now off to the SwordTyphon Gun/Sword Blademaster :wink:

4 Likes

Just to add some more insight. Userate of tactical can be higher than stated because there is still agap at 3,5 secs per grenade.

Also highest DPS atm was 12k in Brompton (with a big pull).

Little update:

Boost rate doesnt work for Multishot anymore, so you dont need to have that. Multishot last longer now so you can get 2 barrages of toxic grenades, 3 other grenades and a strike out!

The new perk for 100 portals give 30+ Power. Very handy for the build.

Notable weapons to use in combination with Grenades apart from the currently op snipers are Firefox Launchers (eg No Quarter or a mythic global one). Thermo Cannons though rarely found as high level variants.

Whatever weapon you use, try to get a Combat Damage aug as it makes a big difference.

1 Like

there’s no way to get more ele attack str than you can have this way, right? i mean, having thrice the grenades is still better than having slightly stronger grenades through ele beacon or ele vision(dunno if the latter even works like that, probably not), correct?

Since 1.5 there are a few more options to get more ele attack strength. For example the dye kit that increases your ele.
In general the Grenader now has alot more options, most importantly to increase dmg of grenades.
When i was playing the above build right before the wipe it was okish but lacking dmg especially because of the multishot nerf. On the other hand power wasnt that big of a problem anymore.
But i am not sure how it will roll out when all 1.5 optimisations are included. I am currently collecting the items which are mostly heavenly quatermaster pieces with grenade dmg and a ton of combat dmg mods. The build making item is and Ihringer with grenade dmg and +1 aug - very hard to get as Ihringer only allows 1 aug (already misauged one). Fontaines Shoulders are also pretty good and maybe Platinum spans.The other things is 2 XM909 4slot with combat dmg and tactical userate (in a perfect world). So it will take a while to see how far the grenader can be taken.

1 Like

With MS nerf you meant that it doesn’t work on grenades anymore? Never thought of using it with nades or strikes, although I remember it being possible.

My Nader is now 43, should hit 50 today with all Nades maxed except Stun, as I don’t need that much shield penetration. Armor pen from the white out grenade is very noteable though … in Brompton with +3 lvls all just melts away.

Currently running with a boom tube (Tankards) and dual thermal bolters with Combat Damage etc.

Although the bolters increase dmg by almost 30% I find myself playing mostly with the boom tube. Nades have an AOF of more than 13meters and the boom tube covers almost 8m with spectral splash, the occasional ravager round and with bosses mostly interrupt locked … with a few improvements and expertise sfx of Toxic sh/could reach 5k …

Looking forward to Dessicator and DotD to evaluate the Naders viability and effectiveness in a Bacon/Brom setup.

If you enjoy playing HC, party up with “Erazor”.

See you online!

As of 1.5 there’s a damage penalty for each individual Strike/Grenade that’s thrown during Multishot; each deals 45% of its normal damage. It’s still 135% overall, if all 3 hit the target, but it’s far from the old 300%.
That’s stated in the patch notes but isn’t stated in the skill’s description; this will be fixed with the next patch.

Ah, thx B, much appreciated. Wasn´t gonna go for MS anyway, this way I´ll be toying to check it out with a trinket, although with only 135%, meaning 35%/3 more (with +13m area all three should hit, but …) … any decent trinket will improve dmg just as much without the hassle of another button to press … and as said DMG is good when fully skilled, just partied in a Brompton LvL53, me being 44 and nades hurt them a lot, without the nades bolter set, but with the Tsunami, so I guess nades are gonna work fine without any recon tree skills … and work outstanding with a maxed Multi/Elemental Bacon MM.

1 Like

Ok, Nader is now 50 and has double digit ranks. All nades maxed (9+1) except stun grenade which provides shield penetration. With splash increase gear (Reapers Reinforced Jack & Dye Kit & Achievement = +40%) all nades have an aoe of 14m … this roughly covers the road from edge to edge in Ploughyard, Brompton Cemetery, Churchyard. I also use Ravager rounds (8+1) and love the occasional „wipe“ when ravager kicks in with Bunkyards Tsunami :slight_smile:

Soloing, I mostly use Bunkyards Tsunami as it complements my nading and profits greatly from the 40% splash increase, ~8m spectral splash … for tougher nuts or in parties I use dual 1 hands with combat dmg and combat dmg mods, as of now that adds another 40% dmg to nade dmg … potentially this could boost combat dmg 150% … if you can wear it … ;-), once you find it …

The Nader can supercomfy solo anything, melting most anything in Brompton Cemetery with Toxic Nade alone … or „hailing“ Epic mobs by hurling 4 nades at them … 1 round of nades clears everything except the occasional thrivers, tough, hardy, robust overloaded suckers … looking forward to test setups in DotD & Dessicator and other Bossruns.

Really nice improvements made with 1.5 thx!

Nades down to 7 would free skill points to put into recon skills such as Dead Eye to improve on shooting (critical dmg), Concussion Rounds, Escape & Sprint … which would free gearing options on legs & boots.

So far, well done team, great playing experience.

1 Like

I can imagine that bunkports is a good nader weapon. I used to play with a lvl 60 themocannon that the guy in finnsbury circus offered me and it was pretty good.

I am currently playing with Multishot 6 but now that i know it doesnt change the damage i want to get rid of it. But i also want to have at least 1-2 points in it via a trinket (which i am desperatly looking for) because the additional nades and strikes offer additional proccs on bosses. And with bosses the nader has its problems and needs to ignite. So there, multishot really comes in handy. And when i have spend the freed points into recon then i get more dam more ignite chance and still have the multishot option.

I have also found a use for the blind nade and that is against Talox minions. With multishot they actually procc sometimes and due to the long duration it is quite nice then. But anywhere else the proccs are too unreliable.

Haven’t been able to test him in boss settings vs Abyss, Dessi, DotD yet. Toxic Nade is at ~ 6300 poison attack strength atm … solo in questing anything just melts and gies to sleep with Toxic grenades … updating once I‘ve done Boss runs

Well, I’ve had boss runs with him, also St.Paul Station …

The Nader is pretty much useless around endboss types. Damage is miniscule when compared to other classes and sfx attack strengths (+6k) are very seldomly proc conditions … while a Summoner easily keeps Dessicator toxicated & burning, especially with Broms,Elemental Drain & Multibeacon/ElementalBeacon/Beacon stacked … a Nader even then very rarely if ever!!! proccs conditions …

It’s clear the Nader is fine when soloing … up to mlvl 54 … after that the fall is steep … to steep.

It’s fun though.

I guess sfx needs to be redone in a way so that other classes aside from the Summoner may find themselves to able to not just unlock content in the game but master it :wink:

Still a long way, but yeah, thx to the team for keeping at it and have us all bump it :+1:

For bossing i gave my nader everything to have as much sfx strength as possible eg trinket with fire, scorched dye, perk, alot of points in ele beacon. AND i also use a fire vodoo against bosses and it is the reason why i wanted to have Multishot on a trinket (2 additional procs from nades, strikes and vodoo). Then you procc pretty fast against bosses aside from Dessy.

Vodoo is a bit of cheesing out but it helps alot against bosses and works quite good with nades because of the CD.

When it comes to Catas he can compensate the bosskilltime with general cleartime. So i am fine with it taking a bit longer against bosses.

Really great to see this build is being appreciated for what it is. There are a few among our item drafts that might make it even more enjoyable in the not-distant future, if I’m permitted to “tease” in this way.

Just out of personal interest, which slots do you feel offer the most/least valuable options for it?

Lemme see, helmet,shoulders and arms are set in stone. For chest there are two good options. I dont think i would like to see my Kylees Boots go but i dont know. So i think pants and or belt. Or weapons. I still havn’t found my bis nader weapons. It is alot of mix and matching with the nader because one has to keep an eye on userate all the time.

1 Like

If you think about boosting nade specific items. I wouldnt mess with combat damage, strikes are good as they are.
My nader can allways make use of skillpoints (as long as he hasnt maxed the recon tree- will never happen), userate, grenade dmg, ignite, duration of curse skills, movement speed. Biggest boost would probably be elemental damage as he only has the trinket for elemental dmg and the increase /combat dmg multiplier gets into an area where elemantal dmg is becoming superior. but this applies for alot of builds. A point of multishot on pants would also help with the multishot trinket issue.

1 Like

Those are fair points, but my main concern with them would be that they’d immediately buff other builds too. Which is great if you’re looking for overall item value, but I think Demolition items specifically would be better off imitating Pierson’s Braces or Platinum Spans.
It’s also fair that +Combat or +Tactical needs to be cautious; we can’t slap +Combat damage to help Grenades or +Tactical userate to help Strikes and forget both affixes both affect both skillgroups. Luckily they both have their own skillgroup, so we can individually buff what’s needed.

I think a point in multishot doesnt help other builds that much since they skill through the whole tree anyways. For the nader that 1 point gives him freedom in the choice of the trinket. Elemental damage for sure would help other builds too and might be taken by MMs over the armor piercing the techa currently gives. Not sure on that though since MMs already have elemental dmg options via mods but not many piercing options. But most likely people would opt for it nevertheless.

Hmmm.

My Nader is maxed out on all maxed, except the stun one with penetration (6).

I useTsunami and as second slot dual one hands with combat dmg and so far with two mods with combat dmg increase (that gives me as of now +60% dmg increase on combat).

Not looking much for use rate as I am throwing bases all the time already …

Splash or Sfx increase dye kit rotate as needed …

Reapers Reinforced with Splash & combat dmg increase beats its for me … no need for a Cybercore as crit does not work with Nades.

Multishot … nope
Beacon … nope

Where would I take the skillpoints from?

Using Tiffneys as I don‘t need the Speed from Artist and clearly prefer more Escape duration over movement speed …

I also do not enjoy playing with MS to triple throw nades or strikes … or sixtuple strikes as some do …

I love the variety of answers the Nader has for battle situations … a second splash would be nice or more reliable area dmg of nades … there are times when a nades just blows a bunch and then next you see em not striking all of a mob … so one ends up using toxic grenade to ensure clearing … so yeah, a fire area nade would complement the toxic one …

Overall I just miss that it has no usefulness again bosses in Abyss and other area in team setups. Every other class outshines the Nader and it’s usefulness to the setup … Engi obviously for the Haste & preferably skilled Beacon … MM with skilled Elemental Multibeacon … so these two stack up … a Cabalist for Elemental drain\Sfx and Dmg … Guardian for the Taunt and Tank to shield the squishiest (not just with his shield and tankendes) … and the Nader … well sure one can have a strike set … but what’s a strike worth with only 3-4 points in it ?

Overall I think Nades should be reduced to max skill 5 as should Strikes and have synergies between Nades & Strikes, thereby creating a true „Demolitionist“ … 9 strikes and nades = 45 points or 36 with a +1 helmet … that would give it points to grow into some (necessary) utility skills … Escape/Artist, Rounds, Sprint …

As for the points. I have not maxed strikes and have the Ihringer +1. For the big prepared strikes i have an additional weapon set with skills. The rest of the points goes into the Recon tree which i find important because of the boss issue. I am using Multishot only on the trinket now in order to get more ignite proccs on bosses.