I'm being driven away

I have ignored the minor issues - I wont list them here - because I really like this game. BUT … My lvl 45 evoker - which previously wasted nearly anything in front of it - now is attempting the first wall quest and cant even get into the level. Attacking with sturdy tempest, highlevel hellfire, a lvl 7 fire minion and powerfull focus attacks - I literally cant damage nightmares, or other mobs. think I have damaged zonbies but I dont believe I have killed one. Something changed and the thing that has changed is my interest in playing a game that I cant solo. I always could before and this evoker has been my most powerful toon (too my surprise). But now its literally worthless. That coupled with a designers mistaken assumption that attacks by 30 or so lost ones (or are they pestilence whatevers) is a good idea. Hurds of mobs is not a solution. I killed them, but now for some reason I cant kill mobs at all. So I spend my entire time only under death exp point penalty. This is broken. I will check on occasion - the wall quest - just in case someone comes to their senses. But I wont - sadly - play it. Two days of this nonsense is enough. It is essential that dev understands that THEY are not playing against players. That is the hallmark of a badly designed games. If it offends dev’s that players solve their levels easily - dont get mad - find another game. A well designed game can be solved by an experienced player. The point of all this is FUN. The pre-level to the first wall challenge isnt FUN. It therefore fails., As a note, I have been a competative ladder player but dont claim to be much good at HG. But I have solo’d this entire game except for several bosses - which clearly require more than I had at that point or a squad. Thats ok. I love playing it. I always find ways to enjoy it - until now. I really am hoping that this is just a blunder that will be fixed; a constant with an extra digit. But there. I have said my piece. Hope to see you again. honest. (The toon in question is in account jimbodkins and in named Burninghand if the devs want to check configuration. Its a penetration/fire toon mainly).
Thanks Jim

Thats odd, wich quest exactly do you mean?

I’d also like to know which quest/level is in question here. Because, as far as this assertion goes,

nothing specific to that level of PvE, or Nightmare, has been changed to my knowledge. The last changes that the live server saw were in December, and they don’t seem capable of affecting lv45 NM PvE to that extent.
I’d also like to know which exact spike in difficulty is observed here - because the original did have a spike in NM, around Liverpool. Which, notably, is not of our making; that was Flagship’s implementation, that we haven’t (to my knowledge) touched on.

Also, please note a few things.

There is no “us” and “them” mentality at any point. Most of the team are either veteran players themselves, or devs that are dedicated to seeing the game prosper.
There is nothing to be gained from antagonizing or “punishing” players in any way, nor do we intend to ever do so.

No attempts to make the game harder are ever about “offense” - Flagship had started a swift towards a harder game, and we happen to agree. Many players also object to this definition; “fun” is a highly subjective term, some value their “fun” more if it comes with challenge, and some prefer party-focused endgame activities because they find them fitting for an MMO.
That’s not to say we do, or will, steer sharply in either direction. The point of this project is indeed to satisfy as many players as possible, and that includes both solo and party players. That’s why we keep trying to collect feedback, entertain different perspectives, and tweak accordingly.

That said, what’s described here sounds unnatural. I’d really like details so I can look into it.

But it was vital that I note the above. Many such issues are either legacy issues, inherited by either vanilla Hellgate or the TC, or bugs. Nobody is interested in antagonizing players, or offended by how easy the game might be to solo. All we care about is creating a fun game, that both solo-minded and party-minded people can enjoy.
For each piece of feedback that reads “the game should be 100% soloable” we have a counterpart piece that reads “I’m now playing SP because this is not an MMO/I don’t need to party” to balance it with. We need to satisfy both, and that’s immensely challenging to do - especially when many veterans carry strong opinions.

test of knowledge at london wall - entered in finsbury circus.

agree. I played competatively on the TWL ladder for years (CTF mainly). I like party games. But it is real work to keep a group together as I’m sure people know, so I tend to solo multiplayer games like this. If there were adhoc partys - that is anyone can jump into an adhoc party portal and join in … informally. You could still have restricted party portals. Orrr, you could make the default portal enter a shared region and only limit strict party play. (I could be a party of one or just play thru the shared areas with most other people).

I dont know what quest levels means. Burninghand is lvl 45 and cant get past the entrance to finsbury circus (london wall quest). I tried half a dozen times over two days. I dont remember the korean hg (is that right?) as ever having as many mobs as are in the game now. There were areas in necropolis that had uncountable numbers of interlocked mob generators (I forget the name of the mob - it generates zombies).

What do evokers think? I"m basically a hunter at heart. I fight under a good Tempest, use lots of hellfire and the electrical one, a good fire minion and decent (for lvl 45) 200+ focus items with a toon that routinely has over 100 % penetration

It does damage. at brompton I coined the phrase brompton haircut with it - meaning it clears mobs out like a barber cuts hair. I was as surprised as it appears most of you are.

By the way, I bent my glasses and cant see half what I type. Sorry for typos.

Thanks Jim

One thing I would love to have is access to logs so I could guage the effectiveness of various weapons and armors.


Finsbury Circus is lvl 57. I think you are asking too much at lvl 45 with gear that is a little undercooked maybe.
As a HCE only player, I have levelled too many toons through the game and would not expect to walk through mobs 12 lvls higher. Generally the mob-toon level is fine through Normal if you do all quests. Once in Nightmare you rapidly fall behind after CharingX. At this point I use new “shiny” quests, Stonehenge head runs and Brompton to level up a bit more before continuing NM game quests. You will also collect some better equipment in the process, even some Abyss gear from Brompton.
Evo is pretty OP damage wise atm and that has probably carried you too far into game but they are fragile which seems to be your problem now.
Hope this helps. As a HCE player I have never killed NM Sydonai yet and I have no problem with that. The challenge is there, at the end.

Yeah man 12 levels under is way too much. Not only dont you do damage and the mobs alot to you but you also gain alot less XP. Level up to 50 and it will work like a breeze. Do a couple of Stonehenge Headruns and all is good. Btw this happened to everyone in every iteration of the game. At some point the mobs level increases faster than your level and you have to do some leveling.

@jimbodkins How the F**K did you got so far. Thats impressive, you skipped all side quest in nightmare right?
In case you didnt know, side quest give you stat points wich are very important, in total 96 i beliefe.
You are in Endgame territorium and saint pauls station is High Endgame.
Go to Templar base, there is the entrance to Stonehenge and the Abyss.

They are in the two big rooms down. Abyss btw is Parliament scuare (We call the hole place abyss)
And from Parliament scuare you can access Brompton Cemetery wich is atm the best lvl area but its a bit crazy in there, for an Evoker like you it will be a slaughter house :wink:
You can also open a party some people want to lvl there too.

In case you already know all of that, then i at least got a copy pasta for the future.

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Thanks for the info guys. I normally get to stonehenge around 30 or so. I have already cleared SH many times. I have cleared abyss half a dozen levels earlier. I have 8 or 9 toons not counting the toons prior to the end of HG. I have never encountered anything like this. In the past the only problem I had with the wall series was the gameyness of it. (That isnt a criticism) I have much better armor and focus items but am 2 or 3 levels under the needed levels to use it. Historically there have also been fewer mobs than now. I understand that my toons are always built to release lots of ergs. My experience with all toons on all the quests including the wall series has been lots of ergs … BUT … if I allow myself to be attacked I get hurt. Defensive maneuver is critical with my toons. Because of my background I understand the timing and process of an enemy preparing to attack and attacking. I can maneuver to suppress that. This is what you do on ladders against people. Maneuver keeps the enemy just short of being ready for an attack. Ranged mobs pose a different threat as do lost ones and pestilence whatevers - which are a doom skull like cheat (not a complaint) in that they are too fast, have too much range and at the moment there are too many of them.

I agree with all, but consider this. After having taken easily half dozen toons to the mid 50’s and an equal number to the 40’s - why would finsbury circus surprise me? I would continue with the wall if I could even damage the mobs … and I would get through it.

These are all just comments. I like the game but am still suspicious due to this being a new experience for me after many toons. (I’m not crowing in any of these posts. On the ladders I was the founder/leaer NOT the main gun. My main mates would shove me around like a child. If you have played on ladders you know what I mean :slight_smile: )

Thanks again

You should see my 50+ marksman light it up with its jins and reapers (and omerta). :slight_smile: I love jins. I only wish I could get the ravager. Looks like a ranged jin.

As a note, I spent time in instagib (one shot kills) in Unrealtournament and rail guns in quake death match - also on shot kills. You learn not to let anyone have a shot. :slight_smile:

Thanks Jim

I leveled from lvl45 to lvl46, equipped one glyphshard (couldnt equip both) , changed several pieces of armor - better armor and 300+ hitpoints. The result, I moved through the lvl57 mobs - including gold mobs. It wasnt a brompton haircut, but I was taking out basically anything in front of me - doing fairly major damage unlike what happened at lvl45, which was a literal stone wall :slight_smile:

lvl46, completed finsbury circus and the wall (the book one). The curve on this has a very steep slope. One level totaly changed the balance. (one lens and 2 pieces of armor). All that means is that experiences are possible that seem discontinuous. All the transitions are not smooth., I guess that’s ok, but if you dont know that it is a shock. I would like to examine logs for weapon, armor damage (both ways). I would also like to see areas that are open and by default shared by many players independent of party.

Thaniks for all the info and help. (add more ravagers). :slight_smile:

There is a very significant gap between 10 level difference and after, all i can suggest is to level your char to 50 before attempting anything past the Necropolis quest. It won’t get any better tho, the last maps of the game have lvl60+ mobs.
This is how it was originally designed by FSS 13 years ago :slight_smile:
If you are past the first test it will get easier (surprisingly) as i know the first one have the highest level mobs in that area for some reason.

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