Items in the wiki.london2038


#1

Hello.

Just some thought. As it is a hell to find the drop locations for items (incorrect global informations or overall hard to find informations in the web, insecureness about the loot-tables of bosses,…) and this is a frequent concern for guide-writers, new players and ppl. like me who like to optimize gear - maybe the Item templates in the Wiki could be edited to allow drop locations to be inserted as the last point? [A Checkbox for all the Level names would be realy cool, but i don’t know if the wiki would support such a thing]

And maybe we could add a Table in the “Abyss Bosses” Thread and begin filling a Loot-Table with the links to the unique items in the Wiki? That would be kind of helpful i think?

I don’t want to mess with that templates as i haven’t edited a wiki before and am not very html savy :wink:

We could also make a new thread for “confirmed drops” and maybe stuff get’s posted so the wiki could be updated step by step…

Any thought about that? Yay? Nay?

Kind regards

LordFalcon666


Give a man fire - and he is warm for a day;
But set fire to him - and he is warm for the rest of his life!


#2

Short version: Yes

Long version:

Level drop ranges (as numbers) was my first thought since the actual level of monsters in an area can vary, and Stonehenge/Abyss areas scale, but I understand that it would be easier to have an area list for reference. That could get pretty long, though. I was thinking of creating separate pages for each area that list levels and related quests and such, but a page with a list of areas and their levels could also work.
For example, the drop level range of Balbi’s Ring is 19-27 (actual item level on a drop can be different due to various modifiers). That could be anywhere from Mansion House to Bishopsgate, and that’s assuming there aren’t any other factors to take into account.

Loot tables are among the number of things I’m working on. It’s a bit complicated since it’s usually hierarchical and uniques tend to be grouped with other rarities when determining drops. Of course, you’re more than welcome to start creating tables if you’d like. I’ll just be giving them a buff later. :stuck_out_tongue:


#3

Thought about something like this for normal and nm mode too, with enemy min. and max. levels.
Max is easy to see if i walk all levels in normal/nm with a lvl50 char… but min is quite problematic as i would have to be everywhere with the most possible mininum level so leveling would have to be avoided :thinking: (admin-port with an invulnerable lvl1?)

Haven’t figured out how the itemlevel possible to drop is tied to the enemy-level exactly.
2-3 levels under enemie-level is quite common (feeling in relation to legendary drops, no hard proof) but 1~2 level above enemy-level too.

(copyright by http://hellgate.suewebik.net do not modify etc. blah blah, it is for HG:global so not accurate for us anyway)


*personal memo - ideesammlung/roadmap

  • Screenshots der Gesamtkarte im “dunklen Level” machen und freistellen zur späteren verwendung in der Wiki.
  • Alle level in norm+nm 3x laden und max. Gegnerlevel aufschreiben
  • Overlay über der freigestellten Karte “wie Skills im Skillplaner” mit fixposition machbar? Jemanden fragen der Ahnung von HTML und PHP hat.
  • Jedes Level benötigt dann eine eigene Wiki-Seite !Die Quests haben bereits (alle?) Levelnamen in deren Wiki-Seiten! Dort die Verlinkung nehmen damit die Verknüpung zur bestehenden Seite erhalten bleibt! auf die der Link von der Karte führt, mit jeweils einer Tabelle für Loot für normal und nightmare und in dem Schritt könnte man die vorhandenen Quests direkt mit verlinken, welche über den Levelnamen leicht aus der Wiki zu ziehen sind. -> Wie zieht man alle Items einer Levelrange aus der Wiki? Suche nach einzelnen Leveln möglich, links müssen eh kopiert werden aus liste. Mit Anführungszeichen z.b. “itemLevel = 5”
  • Jedes Unique Item der Tabelle kann dann auf die bereits vorhandene Seite des Unique-items in der Wiki verlinken. (Mouseover des Items über dem Namen wie im Skillplaner mit den Skillbeschreibungen möglich? -> Jemanden Fragen der Ahnung hat)

** Test **
http://wiki.london2038.com/Tottenham_Court_Road


#4

The item level won’t always match the monster level, so what you see displayed in the item properties can be misleading. Using Balbi’s Ring again as an example, the listed item levels are 16 and 25, but both variants can drop from monster levels 19-27. Even white items can sometimes have fixed item levels which can be above or below the level of monster that dropped it.

Levels (I call them “areas” to avoid confusion) have a base monster level for both difficulties. Monster quality, and maybe certain monster types, can affect the level of a given monster. Not all monsters in an area will be the same level, but I think they’ll be at least the specified minimum for the area, or relative to your level in areas that scale.

Each level/area/location having its own wiki page is a good idea and also what I had in mind.


#5

The question is, first do all “regions” with max-levels with is easily done with a lvl50 char and preparing a “drop-table”… or what.

The span is very difficult and i don’t think it can be fixed, if it’s nor written in hard code that some dev can point out.
So the smallest coefficient would be min.enemy-level <-> max enemy level and that +/- max proofed drop level.

I have a feeling that it would be helping if Bryan could slaughter some 1000 zombies, imps and spectrals (all separate) for a test in lvl 10, 30 and 50 so see how much of each item level drops at a certain level so see if there is some fixed value involved. xD (don’t hit me Bryan)


#6

I was going to assume that the level of an area is the base (minimum) monster level, which is a defined property of the area in the game data. That way the potential unique drops for an area are based on lowest-level white mobs. The initial item level is determined by the monster that drops it, not the player level.

The actual level that appears on the item is based on other things:

  • A fixed level which is specific to the item. Weapons usually have this. For example, a white XMS10 Jackhammer has a fixed level of 34. It could drop from a level 36 monster, but it’ll still have an item level of 34. A green one would be 35, and a blue would be 36.
  • “Affix groups” that can randomly add properties and force an item level. This is what causes unique armor to have multiple variants, and they can go beyond the min and max monster level of an area or the item level drop range.
  • Item quality. Greens get +1, blues +2, oranges +3, uniques sometimes get +3, and so on.
  • Special properties on some uniques. Some high-level uniques get +0-3 which stacks with other modifiers.
  • Loot bonus determined by the monster and/or its quality

I’m not sure on some of the ordering, but they cause a wider item level range. A level 50 boss could drop a level 52 unique that has +3 for being a unique and +0-3 for being a specific unique, meaning an item level range of 55-58 for that specific item.

Each item has a defined level range, which I think is its drop range. Those are the numbers I was planning on using for the item pages.

Monster level doesn’t scale with player level except for Stonehenge and Abyss areas. If you take a level 50 character into Tottenham Court Road in normal, the base monster level is still 1. Bishopsgate still has a base monster level of 27. However, there are a few areas that have a random base monster level. For example, in normal, Angel Passage can be 18-19, and The Strand can be 16-17. I’m not sure what the absolute maximum would be.


#7

Yeah, that does sound like one possible way, i just try to wrap my head around that and include in in the layout i had in my head. I must admit, i haven’t specifically looked on item quality’s influencing the iLvL at all.

That item-range is (speculation here) possibly tied to the “item-types” which are like:

(spawn): Cabalist_Focus27_teeth_basic - Coreslicer
(spawn): Cabalist_Focus27_teethMk2_basic - Corelasher
(spawn): Cabalist_Focus27_teethMk3_basic - Coreshredder
(spawn): Cabalist_Focus28_tusks_basic - Ripping radiant
(spawn): Cabalist_Focus28_tusksMk2_basic - Riving radiant
(spawn): Cabalist_Focus28_tusksMk3_basic - Rending radiant

Either the Monstertype by level has a predefined iLvL range to grab from the item database (simple example like Droprange is Monsterlevel x to Monsterlevel-30% which would explain why it’s harder to get items nearer to the actual monster level the higher you go - abyss regions mostly drops lvl38-41 for me) or it has the related item-types by level in itself which then access the item-database to roll possible outcomes. But that would result in a lot of monstertype related datafiles, i don’t think that it works that way. Then on the other hand, i’m in no way a programmer.

My observations until now is (and i include global here, because i don’t think the general drop mechanic was changed), that a specific unique can be dropped in a zone, in that the corresponding white item type can be dropped. Higher Qualities including uniques are then calculated by random chance and luck. So a Balbi’s ring can drop in a zone that drops white caster-belts called “Ring”.

Oh and we should let the boss-loot-tables out of the thoughts. Abbadon nightmare still drops his lvl14 signature weapon which by that point is completely useless. Shulgoth has some similiar drops…


#8

As far as I can tell, the only influence a monster has on a drop is its own level and its loot bonus. A level 50 monster will drop a level 50 item, but then the loot bonus, item quality, fixed level, etc will change the item level before you see the item actually drop on the ground.
Every individual item has a level range. If an item has a level range of 16-25, I think it’ll only drop from monsters of levels 16-25. However, due to modifiers, it could end up lower than 16 or higher than 25. This is also assuming other restrictions are met, such as only dropping in certain areas or from certain bosses.
With your example, the base item levels are scaling properly, but maybe the fixed levels and other modifiers aren’t scaling up enough.

Correct, although area and boss restrictions can still affect it. A white base item could drop, but the unique might only drop from a specific boss.
Every single item entry has its own level range, so it’s possible for a white base item to have a level range of 13-30, but the unique could have a level range of 20-40. With a level 15 monster, you could find the base item but not the unique. This is rare and mostly applies to boss-specific named legendaries and named rares, though. Uniques with no boss restrictions can usually drop in the same places as their base items as you describe.

Named (signature) items have fixed levels and don’t have alternate nightmare versions. They probably have a wider level range (like 1-100) which is why you’ll see the same low-level version when you find it in nightmare. I think loot tables can force a specific, non-random item to drop even if the level range normally doesn’t allow it. It could initially have an item level of the boss’s level, but then the fixed level and other modifiers change it before the item actually drops.
This could be resolved by adding new items that have similar properties but a higher item level.